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  • I'm rather confused, as in AC II  you find the seal of the Assassin Darius ,that he was a member of the Brotherhood and he was active in the 5th Century BCE. Yet Bayek, is supposedly the founder of the Brotherhood more than 500 years after Darius. Doesn't this make a conflict with the storyline? As well as Amunet was responsible for killing Cleopatra at the same time as Bayek, and she was an Assassin as well. Did the Brotherhood collapse? Or did it just not become unified untill Bayek? I really hope they explain this in AC Origins. Because it just seems to be massively confusing. Any ideas?

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    • The developers have stated that they won't retcon Amunet's assassination of Cleopatra. As for Darius and the other Assassins that predate Bayek or are contemporary with him, we don't really know yet. From what the developers have said, Bayek came up with the tenets and the Creed. The Assassin Brotherhood itself has been around since the Human-Isu War around 75,010 BCE, when they were led by Eve.

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    • the Wikia Editor this is not making much sense (f@@@@g to change again we come back in that time that is not according to its timeline in history and the story is without information or with false information ... wait: ah no ac never left this The war between "Assassins" and "Templars" (which are not called by that name, not murderers) began in 465BC where the use of the hidden blade in the murder was also seen for the first time Of Xerxes I, that is, Altair told his disciples to preach the sect around the world but throughout the world it already existed but under another name. Liberius Circulum, Brotherhood of the Medjas, Revolution Adam and Eve. So who created the Brotherhood? Soon, if the brotherhood was born, the order of the non-knights was also born ... Who created it? Adam and Eve? Bayek?

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    • Jjrprime123 wrote:
      the Wikia Editor this is not making much sense (f@@@@g to change again we come back in that time that is not according to its timeline in history and the story is without information or with false information ... wait: ah no ac never left this The war between "Assassins" and "Templars" (which are not called by that name, not murderers) began in 465BC where the use of the hidden blade in the murder was also seen for the first time Of Xerxes I, that is, Altair told his disciples to preach the sect around the world but throughout the world it already existed but under another name. Liberius Circulum, Brotherhood of the Medjas, Revolution Adam and Eve. So who created the Brotherhood? Soon, if the brotherhood was born, the order of the non-knights was also born ... Who created it? Adam and Eve? Bayek?

      To answer some of your questions:

      We don't know when and how the Templars were founded. It's strongly hinted that they were founded by Cain, with his mark being used as their symbol.

      As for the Assassin-Templar War, it definitely predates 465 BCE. The first recorded use of the Hidden Blade doesn't tell us anything about the age of the organization itself.

      As I've already said, Bayek came up with the tenets and the Creed, but the Assassin Brotherhood had already existed for thousands of years in one form or another before then. Bayek was simply an important figure whose teachings changed the way the brotherhood operated in the centuries afterwards.

      Altaïr, similarly, made reforms to the way the brotherhood operated that ensured their survival into the modern age.

      Basically, Bayek and Altaïr made important reforms to the brotherhood for which they were honored and revered, but neither one can really be said to have created it, at least not in the sense of building it from scratch.

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    • So Bayek is like Moses and Altair is David? 

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    • Jjrprime123 wrote:
      So Bayek is like Moses and Altair is David? 

      Kinda, I suppose.

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    • I pray that Bayek is alliend with the Jewish Israelites....that will be awesome. 

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    • Callum Konstantin wrote: I pray that Bayek is alliend with the Jewish Israelites....that will be awesome. 

      This period in Egypt is centuries removed from the time of the Israelites, especially in Egypt.

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:

      Callum Konstantin wrote: I pray that Bayek is alliend with the Jewish Israelites....that will be awesome. 

      This period in Egypt is centuries removed from the time of the Israelites, especially in Egypt.

      One can hope can't they... I would love to see my people in Assassins Creed as protagonists.  

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    • Callum Konstantin wrote:
      Sol Pacificus wrote:

      Callum Konstantin wrote: I pray that Bayek is alliend with the Jewish Israelites....that will be awesome. 

      This period in Egypt is centuries removed from the time of the Israelites, especially in Egypt.
      One can hope can't they... I would love to see my people in Assassins Creed as protagonists.  

      There were Jews living in Alexandria during Bayek's time though, so I guess this the closest you can get for now.

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    • XOdeyssusx wrote:
      Callum Konstantin wrote:
      Sol Pacificus wrote:

      Callum Konstantin wrote: I pray that Bayek is alliend with the Jewish Israelites....that will be awesome. 

      This period in Egypt is centuries removed from the time of the Israelites, especially in Egypt.
      One can hope can't they... I would love to see my people in Assassins Creed as protagonists.  
      There were Jews living in Alexandria during Bayek's time though, so I guess this the closest you can get for now.

      Wow I did not know that... Atleast they should make an Israelite Protagonist or Assassin Apprentice. I'm wishing that they would. 

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    • If the Instruments of the First Will wil come in Assassins Creed Origins, then would Juno be called Lilith?

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    • Callum Konstantin wrote:
      If the Instruments of the First Will wil come in Assassins Creed Origins, then would Juno be called Lilith?

      Doubtful, Juno was already well-established and worshipped by the throughout the Roman Empire. There's also the fact that the earliest references to Lilith were in the Babylonian Talmud, which was compiled in the 3rd to 5th centuries.

      Also, I can't seem to find any connection between Juno and Lilith that would imply that they were ever believed to be the same entity.

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    • The Wikia Editor wrote:
      Callum Konstantin wrote:
      If the Instruments of the First Will wil come in Assassins Creed Origins, then would Juno be called Lilith?
      Doubtful, Juno was already well-established and worshipped by the throughout the Roman Empire. There's also the fact that the earliest references to Lilith were in the Babylonian Talmud, which was compiled in the 3rd to 5th centuries.

      Also, I can't seem to find any connection between Juno and Lilith that would imply that they were ever believed to be the same entity.

      Maybe its one of her Aliases....therefore she is the Satan in the Assassins Creed Universe. 

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    • Callum Konstantin wrote:

      The Wikia Editor wrote:
      Callum Konstantin wrote:
      If the Instruments of the First Will wil come in Assassins Creed Origins, then would Juno be called Lilith?
      Doubtful, Juno was already well-established and worshipped by the throughout the Roman Empire. There's also the fact that the earliest references to Lilith were in the Babylonian Talmud, which was compiled in the 3rd to 5th centuries.

      Also, I can't seem to find any connection between Juno and Lilith that would imply that they were ever believed to be the same entity.

      Maybe its one of her Aliases....therefore she is the Satan in the Assassins Creed Universe. 

      I pointed this out in an older post, but if anything Aphrodite can be traced to Satan, as both symbolize the Morning Star, with the story of Lucifer himself being derived from an earlier story of the war god Attar, Attar being an Arabian variant of Aphrodite (or Ishtar/Asherah/Inanna) with the gender switched because that was an apparent habit of the Arabian pantheon. (The more chaotic and temperamental attributes of the original Sumerian god Inanna seemed to have mellowed as she moved westward, and we see part of this in Attar splitting off into a war god whereas Inanna/Ishtar/Aphrodite/Venus eventually lost her personal association with war when, in her original Sumerican incarnation, she was goddess of both love and war.)

      I would not want Aphrodite to be Satan in Assassin's Creed though. Maybe her twin brother or a past lover.

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    • I would date the Instruments' formation Post-Molay, when the Templars lost their original purpose.

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    • DipsonDP wrote:
      I would date the Instruments' formation Post-Molay, when the Templars lost their original purpose.

      So you would say the Juno is also called Baphomet...cause Baphomet is seemingly genderless or maybe he is a woman i cannot truly tell. 

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote: I would not want Aphrodite to be Satan in Assassin's Creed though. Maybe her twin brother or a past lover.

      Aphrodite doesn't have a twin brother.

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    • Ghost Leader wrote:

      Sol Pacificus wrote: I would not want Aphrodite to be Satan in Assassin's Creed though. Maybe her twin brother or a past lover.

      Aphrodite doesn't have a twin brother.

      I'm aware of that, and that's not what I meant. I meant that if we wanted to draw inspiration from the fact that Lucifer is in real history possibly derived from a male variant of Ishtar/Inanna/Aphrodite named Attar without equating Aphrodite with Satan in Assassin's Creed lore, we could say she did have a twin brother and that is Lucifer even if this is quite obviously not the case in Greek mythology.

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    • Honestly, the connection between Satan and the Morning Star doesn't really work, because the passage supposedly referring to him as such is actually about the Babylonian king.

      It should also be noted that the Canaanite god Shahar, god of dawn and one of the many sons of El, was also described as the Morning Star. I think I once read that Attar was sometimes identified as being Shahar's son.

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    • The Wikia Editor wrote: Honestly, the connection between Satan and the Morning Star doesn't really work, because the passage supposedly referring to him as such is actually about the Babylonian king.

      It should also be noted that the Canaanite god Shahar, god of dawn and one of the many sons of El, was also described as the Morning Star. I think I once read that Attar was sometimes identified as being Shahar's son.

      The connection between Satan and Lucifer was always rather weird since as you said Lucifer referred to a Babylonian king, most likely Nebuchadnezzar II, and it was only later theologians that identified Lucifer with Satan by extension. At one point even Jesus was occasionally called by that epithet. However, there is indeed a Canaanite story predating Judaism of a god revolting against El in a fight for supremacy and being forced into the underworld after he failed, and this god was variously identified with the Morning Star.

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:

      The Wikia Editor wrote: Honestly, the connection between Satan and the Morning Star doesn't really work, because the passage supposedly referring to him as such is actually about the Babylonian king.

      It should also be noted that the Canaanite god Shahar, god of dawn and one of the many sons of El, was also described as the Morning Star. I think I once read that Attar was sometimes identified as being Shahar's son.

      The connection between Satan and Lucifer was always rather weird since as you said Lucifer referred to a Babylonian king, most likely Nebuchadnezzar II, and it was only later theologians that identified Lucifer with Satan by extension. At one point even Jesus was occasionally called by that epithet. However, there is indeed a Canaanite story predating Judaism of a god revolting against El in a fight for supremacy and being forced into the underworld after he failed, and this god was variously identified with the Morning Star.

      Yes, that's Helel, son of Shahar (I was mistaken when I said that Attar was Shahar's son). Helel is the Hebrew word for Lucifer. Certain scholars have hypothesized that the morning star passage was based on, or at least inspired by, that particular myth.

      I also know about Jesus having been called Lucifer, it was a generic term that was applied without any necessarily bad connotations. It's only when it was identified with Satan that it fell out of favor.

      It's similar to how the title Baal/Ba'al, meaning "Lord", became synonymous with worshipping false gods, even though it was just a generic title attributed to multiple gods, including the Israelite Yahweh, Babylonian Marduk and even Zeus/Jupiter, through the Greek and Roman forms Belus and Belos.

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    • Callum Konstantin wrote:
      DipsonDP wrote:
      I would date the Instruments' formation Post-Molay, when the Templars lost their original purpose.
      So you would say the Juno is also called Baphomet...cause Baphomet is seemingly genderless or maybe he is a woman i cannot truly tell. 

      No because it has been confirmed that Baphomet has nothing to do with the Templars. That was just a rumor created by the Assassins to get the Templars executed. I was saying "Post-Molay" because apparently he introduced their current approach to form a New World Order.

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    • So guys dont you agree that is more useful if ubisoft make mission with darius, caligula and for last Amunet after the formation of the brotherhood... Because that little bureaus that begun with Adam and Evie ( the first bureau) always existed but The big brotherhood that after will become the assassin brotherhood and also the discount cards will coming with the public creation of the assassins brotherhood begun with Bayek... Bayek desist to be alone and sad so he put: "- Let's drink let's f@k and forgget about our problems... And 3 amun to my brotherhood: The hidden ones! Drinks for all the iniciates but premium members after the payment of one finger...

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