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  • Now, in the AC series, the templars grow into a massive coroeration ( abstergo), and take over govenmmets in secfet. But, in reality, acckrding ti "offical histroy", the templars were ousted and disbaned in the late midevil times. Anyway, i higly doubt the templard are really still active but the assins were actually based off of the hasssans, a medevil muslim tribe that assisted the arabs agint the templars in the crusades, the Hassans eventually turned inti modern-day muslim extrimest millitas( no offense to muslims). But does anyone think that the templars are real or a group like the is?

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    • There are some facts I wanted to correct you on.
      First, the real-life, historical Assassins were not a tribe, but a state specifically formed from a group of Nizari Ismailis.
      More importantly, modern-day Muslim extremists and terrorists have absolutely no connection with the historical Assassins or the descendants of the historical Assassins. The Assassins were Nizari Ismailis, which is a branch of Shia Islam, and like the fictional Assassins, they historically refrained from harming innocent civilians. They do still exist today, with a continued line of succession, but they are quite integrated with Western society and obviously don't practice political violence anymore. See: Aga Khan IV. The Islamic extremists of today mostly subscribe to the ideology called Wahhabism, a rather recent denomination of Islam founded by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab only around 1740.

      And no, I don't think that the Knights Templar, or a group like it (e.g. Illuminati) still exists. It's not impossible for secret societies to be lingering around, but I'm not much of a fan for conspiracy theories because I think there's not much merit to such theorizing without evidence. The Knights Hospitaller still exist though.

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    • Thanks. my mid east history got jacked up in my head. there is a Freemason-affiliated group known as the knights templar(or knights hospitaller), though I doubt they have any rural significant links to the original Templar's. There is a Mexican street gang aprently called the "knights templar" but its obvious that they are not temolar-related. But does anyone think that there may be a corperation like abstergo in real life?

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    • Yeah there is they are called Ubisoft

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    • Yeah, it's called Electronic Arts.

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    • Yeah, they're called terrorists. They hit London three times, THREE TIMES! 

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    • Each and everyone of you all have great points indeed. If they still exist ( which they obviously dont but still) what current world leaders do you think they control. i knoe most of you, at least some, are instatly thinkinh DONALD TRUMP, which woudnt suprise me, but any other world leaders they might own if they were real? Its obvious that the mainstream press would be controlled by templars. Aperntly one of the people on this site said that ubisoft is templar. not critising, but asking, what makes u say thatt? 

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    • good poinst yall

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    • i mean points

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    • Who here thinks Donald Trumo is Templar? most of you all will say "me". But who knows? this is of course if they were real

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    • 108.76.119.144 wrote: Each and everyone of you all have great points indeed. If they still exist ( which they obviously dont but still) what current world leaders do you think they control. i knoe most of you, at least some, are instatly thinkinh DONALD TRUMP, which woudnt suprise me, but any other world leaders they might own if they were real? Its obvious that the mainstream press would be controlled by templars. Aperntly one of the people on this site said that ubisoft is templar. not critising, but asking, what makes u say thatt? 

      But Ubisoft was the one to reveal that the assassins are good people.
      
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    • 108.76.119.144 wrote:
      Who here thinks Donald Trumo is Templar? most of you all will say "me". But who knows? this is of course if they were real


      Donald Trump is too xenophobic and exclusionistic to be a Templar. As much as I'm aligned with the Assassins, even I will acknowledge that the Templars are globalists who believe in benefiting all of humanity regardless of superficial labels like race, nationality, ethnicity, and I would surmise, even religious affiliation (a virtue the Templars and Assassins actually share). Trump fails miserably in this area though he shares with Templars their penchant for thinking themselves always the ones who know best for everyone and believing that security alone amounts to a peaceful society. If anything, Trump would be a Templar puppet at most; he would most assuredly never be an Assassin though. Also, Templars do appreciate science, which Trump evidently does not appreciate.

      I hope I'm not getting too political. I personally think this thread is a bit troll, for lack of a better word, no offense. I actually regret going into that xD since this is so not a serious thread, but it is my bad habit to go ahead and respond and bleh.

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    • With everything he said, it fits more to the Templar ideals as a Templar puppet Clinton  than Trump.

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    • Spanish assassin wrote:
      With everything he said, it fits more to the Templar ideals as a Templar puppet Clinton  than Trump.


      Yes, Clinton would probably fit the Templar archetype better than Trump, either as an actual Templar or a puppet (whereas Trump wouldn't be an actual Templar, but might be a puppet). It's important to remember that even a relatively decent leader could be a Templar, such as Arthur or Sun Yat-sen, and as Desmond mentioned, it's not out of the question Obama could have been a Templar because they have their hands everywhere.

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:


      Donald Trump is too xenophobic and exclusionistic to be a Templar. As much as I'm aligned with the Assassins, even I will acknowledge that the Templars are globalists who believe in benefiting all of humanity regardless of superficial labels like race, nationality, ethnicity, and I would surmise, even religious affiliation (a virtue the Templars and Assassins actually share). Trump fails miserably in this area though he shares with Templars their penchant for thinking themselves always the ones who know best for everyone and believing that security alone amounts to a peaceful society. If anything, Trump would be a Templar puppet at most; he would most assuredly never be an Assassin though. Also, Templars do appreciate science, which Trump evidently does not appreciate.

      I hope I'm not getting too political. I personally think this thread is a bit troll, for lack of a better word, no offense. I actually regret going into that xD since this is so not a serious thread, but it is my bad habit to go ahead and respond and bleh.

      ^ All this.

      I'm aligned with the Templars and I don't want to have this m#$%"&fu#$%& on my lines!

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    • The government knows what your saying kids

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    • The real Templars, if we can actually call them that, are the terrorists. In their twisted sense of logic, they believe all this chaos and destruction serves a higher purpose. 

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    • SupremeAssassin wrote: The real Templars, if we can actually call them that, are the terrorists. In their twisted sense of logic, they believe all this chaos and destruction serves a higher purpose. 

      But hasashins were musilims

      EDIT:not all muslims aren't terrorists

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    • I'm not sure if SupremeAssassin was referring to Islamic terrorists or calling true Templars of the series terrorists.

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    • SupremeAssassin wrote:
      The real Templars, if we can actually call them that, are the terrorists. In their twisted sense of logic, they believe all this chaos and destruction serves a higher purpose. 

      I don't know pal, but I think you should explain this affirmation more because it's like you're mixing everything in a big bowl. :(

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:
      I'm not sure if SupremeAssassin was referring to Islamic terrorists or calling true Templars of the series terrorists.

      Nah, I mean, if you take a look at terrorism today, it's essentially what Templars do in the Assassin's Creed franchise. Now you might wonder how that'd make sense and that perhaps I am grasping at straws but terrorists and AC Templars are not so different. I am of course referring to Islamic terrorists, and if you did the research, in Islam, they indoctrinate young boys and girls to hate nonbelievers. What does this mean? Well, this means everyone who does not adhere to the Islamic faith. Likewise, Templars also "hate" nonbelievers, or in other words, they do not care for those who do not share their goals and their beliefs. Before the foundation of Abstergo Industries, the Templars were nothing more than destructive miscreants who held no respect for the freedom of others. Terrorists, like Templars, believe in some bigger picture, some higher purpose through violence. The Assassins also resort to violence, but their primary goal is to safeguard the freedom of humanity when it is most threatened. I have no doubt that if Assassins as in the AC universe, existed in our modern day and age, they would actively pursue these Islamic extremists and put them down. A terrorist is someone who insights terror, it does not matter the person's ethnicity or religion, and Templars have instigated terror in the series, many times. Ultimately, this is what I mean. It just so happens that our modern day terrorists are all adherents to the Islamic faith, which makes you wonder what's going on. 

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    • ^ Or by looking at the series from view and gasping at straws another way you could argue that both organizations are fascist because of their methods. Aside from that both have instigated terror, so in that regard both would be terrorist organizations too. Then again we're both generalizing and that's the point I'm making as gasping at straws can be done both ways. Neither of us has analyzed things completely but based the exaggerations on specific things both do to make the point.

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    • SupremeAssassin wrote: Nah, I mean, if you take a look at terrorism today, it's essentially what Templars do in the Assassin's Creed franchise. Now you might wonder how that'd make sense and that perhaps I am grasping at straws but terrorists and AC Templars are not so different. I am of course referring to Islamic terrorists, and if you did the research, in Islam, they indoctrinate young boys and girls to hate nonbelievers. What does this mean? Well, this means everyone who does not adhere to the Islamic faith. Likewise, Templars also "hate" nonbelievers, or in other words, they do not care for those who do not share their goals and their beliefs. Before the foundation of Abstergo Industries, the Templars were nothing more than destructive miscreants who held no respect for the freedom of others. Terrorists, like Templars, believe in some bigger picture, some higher purpose through violence. The Assassins also resort to violence, but their primary goal is to safeguard the freedom of humanity when it is most threatened. I have no doubt that if Assassins as in the AC universe, existed in our modern day and age, they would actively pursue these Islamic extremists and put them down. A terrorist is someone who insights terror, it does not matter the person's ethnicity or religion, and Templars have instigated terror in the series, many times. Ultimately, this is what I mean. It just so happens that our modern day terrorists are all adherents to the Islamic faith, which makes you wonder what's going on. 

      I agree that Templars of the series are largely terrorists which is always the greatest irony with those who justify authoritarianism or tyranny with arguments about "order", "peace", and "security", their ends is "order" but their means is "chaos". In contrast, the ends of the Assassins, is peace, sure, and their means "freedom", sure, but it is not chaos, and their methods emphasize precision and moral discipline.

      Now, there are those who argue that moderate Templars do not condone terrorism. I think this isn't impossible. Perhaps one can wish for a New World Order under Templar elitist rule but not believe innocent casualties are acceptable for that dream. The problem with Templars isn't that they necessarily, actively endorse terrorism—that's never explicit—but that they quite specifically have no prohibition against it.

      However, I disagree that Templars would be Islamic terrorists. Not all terrorists are the same. Just like not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, not all terrorists are Templars. Villains have different motives. Templars are certainly not religious fanatics, at least not in modern times. The only way I could see ISIL being Templars would be if somehow ISIL were not sincerely for the cause of Islam as they claim and are actually atheists, or if they are being puppeted by the Templars. Both, in a hypothetical scenario where Ubisoft actually dealt with this faction in the series (which would be a bad idea), would be poor writing to me. As much as I'm very pro-Assassin, I don't think that every evil faction in history should be Templars. There should be nuance. ISIL is practically anarchic, to the point that I don't think any Templar would be able to delude themselves that that kind of rampant chaos was for the greater goal of world peace, even if they did so for the French Revolution or World War II.

      I guess... if we really want to suppose that Islamic terrorists are Templars, the greater plan would be to try to galvanize a mass mentality towards valuing national security above all, whereby people would more likely turn to authoritarian measures. Xenophobia and fear are harbingers to dictatorships. The threat of Islamic terrorism has helped to drive more people towards the alt-right. It actually sounds more feasible now that I think of it given how convoluted Templar schemes can be, but I wouldn't like that sort of plot still just as I protest to the Allies' leaders being Templars as well.

      Yes, the Assassins, if they exist in real-life, would oppose the Islamic terrorists and help in the cause against them, but I think I should also add that they definitely would not make any generalizations that Islam at its core indoctrinates its adherents to hate all non-believers (even if that's not what you said). I mean, for one thing, the historical Hassan-i Sabbāh was educated by the Fatimid Caliphate of Egypt which professed to religious tolerance and the right to freedom of beliefs. For another thing, they would recognize that the real picture is far, far more complex.

      I fear this is getting too political lol.

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:

      SupremeAssassin wrote: Nah, I mean, if you take a look at terrorism today, it's essentially what Templars do in the Assassin's Creed franchise. Now you might wonder how that'd make sense and that perhaps I am grasping at straws but terrorists and AC Templars are not so different. I am of course referring to Islamic terrorists, and if you did the research, in Islam, they indoctrinate young boys and girls to hate nonbelievers. What does this mean? Well, this means everyone who does not adhere to the Islamic faith. Likewise, Templars also "hate" nonbelievers, or in other words, they do not care for those who do not share their goals and their beliefs. Before the foundation of Abstergo Industries, the Templars were nothing more than destructive miscreants who held no respect for the freedom of others. Terrorists, like Templars, believe in some bigger picture, some higher purpose through violence. The Assassins also resort to violence, but their primary goal is to safeguard the freedom of humanity when it is most threatened. I have no doubt that if Assassins as in the AC universe, existed in our modern day and age, they would actively pursue these Islamic extremists and put them down. A terrorist is someone who insights terror, it does not matter the person's ethnicity or religion, and Templars have instigated terror in the series, many times. Ultimately, this is what I mean. It just so happens that our modern day terrorists are all adherents to the Islamic faith, which makes you wonder what's going on. 

      I agree that Templars of the series are largely terrorists which is always the greatest irony with those who justify authoritarianism or tyranny with arguments about "order", "peace", and "security", their ends is "order" but their means is "chaos". In contrast, the ends of the Assassins, is peace, sure, and their means "freedom", sure, but it is not chaos, and their methods emphasize precision and moral discipline.

      Now, there are those who argue that moderate Templars do not condone terrorism. I think this isn't impossible. Perhaps one can wish for a New World Order under Templar elitist rule but not believe innocent casualties are acceptable for that dream. The problem with Templars isn't that they necessarily, actively endorse terrorism—that's never explicit—but that they quite specifically have no prohibition against it.

      However, I disagree that Templars would be Islamic terrorists. Not all terrorists are the same. Just like not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, not all terrorists are Templars. Villains have different motives. Templars are certainly not religious fanatics, at least not in modern times. The only way I could see ISIL being Templars would be if somehow ISIL were not sincerely for the cause of Islam as they claim and are actually atheists, or if they are being puppeted by the Templars. Both, in a hypothetical scenario where Ubisoft actually dealt with this faction in the series (which would be a bad idea), would be poor writing to me. As much as I'm very pro-Assassin, I don't think that every evil faction in history should be Templars. There should be nuance. ISIL is practically anarchic, to the point that I don't think any Templar would be able to delude themselves that that kind of rampant chaos was for the greater goal of world peace, even if they did so for the French Revolution or World War II.

      I guess... if we really want to suppose that Islamic terrorists are Templars, the greater plan would be to try to galvanize a mass mentality towards valuing national security above all, whereby people would more likely turn to authoritarian measures. Xenophobia and fear are harbingers to dictatorships. The threat of Islamic terrorism has helped to drive more people towards the alt-right. It actually sounds more feasible now that I think of it given how convoluted Templar schemes can be, but I wouldn't like that sort of plot still just as I protest to the Allies' leaders being Templars as well.

      Yes, the Assassins, if they exist in real-life, would oppose the Islamic terrorists and help in the cause against them, but I think I should also add that they definitely would not make any generalizations that Islam at its core indoctrinates its adherents to hate all non-believers (even if that's not what you said). I mean, for one thing, the historical Hassan-i Sabbāh was educated by the Fatimid Caliphate of Egypt which professed to religious tolerance and the right to freedom of beliefs. For another thing, they would recognize that the real picture is far, far more complex.

      I fear this is getting too political lol.

      That is exactly the irony of the Templars, they purport system and order, but their methods are so beset of ideological destruction, that one has to wonder if whether what they truly seek is the good of all mankind. As Edward Kenway said to Governor Torres, "You would have mankind dulled beyond reason." I feel this is no different from Totalitarianism, as citizens of State are essentially one body, with no freedom of thought, or association. Basically, everything the Assassin's Creed, and the Assassin ideology supports all vanishes from Totalitarianism. I've done the reading, and apparently, the Prophet Muhammid, akin to say, a Templar Grandmaster such as Reginald Birch, do not place a lot of value on non-adherents. What I can say for certain is that Templars are terrorists, and furthermore, they advocate for a Totalitarian State. How the Assassins and Templars differ is by philosophy. It's like comparing Democracy to Autocracy, that's what it boils down to I would say. Have you ever noticed that although every branch of the Assassin Brotherhood has a Mentor, said Mentor does not have absolute power, whereas, in the Templar Order, the Grandmaster often has absolute power? Take Syndicate, for instance, Starrick essentially controlled London, and by Henry Green's admission, controlled the world also. 

      Yes, I do concur, individuals such as Haytham Kenway, and Shay Cormac did not condone terrorism, and ironically, the Assassin Ezio Auditore da Firenze did insight terror in Cappadocia in order to lure out Manuel Palaiologos. So it's not all black and white, as we are initially led to believe. Of course, one may argue that Ezio did not foresee that his actions would lead to such drastic results. 

      I understand what you mean, but within the AC universe, real-life figures such as Adolf Hitler were either Templars or Templar puppets. So I suppose that in hindsight, not every villain in the AC universe should have to be a Templar. For instance, Jack the Ripper was an Assassin, and Pierre Belloc was also an Assassin. Bartholomew Roberts was a Sage, not a Templar. 

      No, the Assassins are about freedom of expression and respect others regardless of their heritage, or their origins. The Assassins were basically centuries ahead of their time, being able to tolerate social behaviors that were otherwise viewed as unorthodox at the time. 

      PS: You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see Ubisoft delve into Seven Pillars of Wisdom, I have this idea that T.E Lawrence would have been an Assassin. 

      Consider this passage from the book, "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. This I did."

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    • Sol Pacificus wrote:

      SupremeAssassin wrote: Nah, I mean, if you take a look at terrorism today, it's essentially what Templars do in the Assassin's Creed franchise. Now you might wonder how that'd make sense and that perhaps I am grasping at straws but terrorists and AC Templars are not so different. I am of course referring to Islamic terrorists, and if you did the research, in Islam, they indoctrinate young boys and girls to hate nonbelievers. What does this mean? Well, this means everyone who does not adhere to the Islamic faith. Likewise, Templars also "hate" nonbelievers, or in other words, they do not care for those who do not share their goals and their beliefs. Before the foundation of Abstergo Industries, the Templars were nothing more than destructive miscreants who held no respect for the freedom of others. Terrorists, like Templars, believe in some bigger picture, some higher purpose through violence. The Assassins also resort to violence, but their primary goal is to safeguard the freedom of humanity when it is most threatened. I have no doubt that if Assassins as in the AC universe, existed in our modern day and age, they would actively pursue these Islamic extremists and put them down. A terrorist is someone who insights terror, it does not matter the person's ethnicity or religion, and Templars have instigated terror in the series, many times. Ultimately, this is what I mean. It just so happens that our modern day terrorists are all adherents to the Islamic faith, which makes you wonder what's going on. 

      I agree that Templars of the series are largely terrorists which is always the greatest irony with those who justify authoritarianism or tyranny with arguments about "order", "peace", and "security", their ends is "order" but their means is "chaos". In contrast, the ends of the Assassins, is peace, sure, and their means "freedom", sure, but it is not chaos, and their methods emphasize precision and moral discipline.

      Now, there are those who argue that moderate Templars do not condone terrorism. I think this isn't impossible. Perhaps one can wish for a New World Order under Templar elitist rule but not believe innocent casualties are acceptable for that dream. The problem with Templars isn't that they necessarily, actively endorse terrorism—that's never explicit—but that they quite specifically have no prohibition against it.

      However, I disagree that Templars would be Islamic terrorists. Not all terrorists are the same. Just like not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, not all terrorists are Templars. Villains have different motives. Templars are certainly not religious fanatics, at least not in modern times. The only way I could see ISIL being Templars would be if somehow ISIL were not sincerely for the cause of Islam as they claim and are actually atheists, or if they are being puppeted by the Templars. Both, in a hypothetical scenario where Ubisoft actually dealt with this faction in the series (which would be a bad idea), would be poor writing to me. As much as I'm very pro-Assassin, I don't think that every evil faction in history should be Templars. There should be nuance. ISIL is practically anarchic, to the point that I don't think any Templar would be able to delude themselves that that kind of rampant chaos was for the greater goal of world peace, even if they did so for the French Revolution or World War II.

      I guess... if we really want to suppose that Islamic terrorists are Templars, the greater plan would be to try to galvanize a mass mentality towards valuing national security above all, whereby people would more likely turn to authoritarian measures. Xenophobia and fear are harbingers to dictatorships. The threat of Islamic terrorism has helped to drive more people towards the alt-right. It actually sounds more feasible now that I think of it given how convoluted Templar schemes can be, but I wouldn't like that sort of plot still just as I protest to the Allies' leaders being Templars as well.

      Yes, the Assassins, if they exist in real-life, would oppose the Islamic terrorists and help in the cause against them, but I think I should also add that they definitely would not make any generalizations that Islam at its core indoctrinates its adherents to hate all non-believers (even if that's not what you said). I mean, for one thing, the historical Hassan-i Sabbāh was educated by the Fatimid Caliphate of Egypt which professed to religious tolerance and the right to freedom of beliefs. For another thing, they would recognize that the real picture is far, far more complex.

      I fear this is getting too political lol.

      actually it says that dont harm anyone if they didnt harm or threaten you.


      im a muslim so i know it a little more

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    • GAMINGMASTER210 wrote: actually it says that dont harm anyone if they didnt harm or threaten you.

      im a muslim so i know it a little more

      Just so we're clear, I do not agree with his assertions about Islam. I've studied Arabian and Islamic history at length as well. Like any civilization, it is not a black-and-white story, and I do not believe that Islam or its founders endorse(s/d) terrorism or indoctrinate(s/d) its practitioners to hate all non-Muslims. However, I don't wish to provoke a theological debate. I think that is out-of-place for this community.

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    • Exactly. I just asked about the Templars and how are they perceived by you. Let keep the theological and political debates away and let's just focus on things that AC explains.

      By the way, thank you guys for your points of view, really ^w^. I've read them and, soon, I'll give you some pro-templar arguments to talked about the stuff peacefully, remember that. But for know I've to deal with works, essays and software programming the university gives me.

      Once again, thanks.

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    • I think think that mr jameson was kiled buthis son was kidnapped.

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    • Im sorry i meant to say that tye temolars would spy on peopke via internet. stupid lagging made me say that randomly

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    • I meant to thej say remember mr jMesonl  but stil whay domu think happened to them

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    • Hey have you guys heard of North Korea?

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    • Ever heard of the pentagon? What about the washington monument? Those would be great secret places for templares. It would be crazy if the temolars used the wahington monument as an underground hidden base. But that would make sense. Irrelevance beside, what do you think happened to mr jameson? 

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    • He died

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    • yeah it was obvious

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    • 108.76.119.144 wrote:
      Now, in the AC series, the templars grow into a massive coroeration ( abstergo), and take over govenmmets in secfet. But, in reality, acckrding ti "offical histroy", the templars were ousted and disbaned in the late midevil times. Anyway, i higly doubt the templard are really still active but the assins were actually based off of the hasssans, a medevil muslim tribe that assisted the arabs agint the templars in the crusades, the Hassans eventually turned inti modern-day muslim extrimest millitas( no offense to muslims). But does anyone think that the templars are real or a group like the is?

      Remmber to differentiate between a fictional universe and real life. 

      Plus even if the Fraternity which silently controls all the empires through the -- Kings, Pharohs, Presidents and Emperors -- exist....they would be invisible...no public or private records at all. Labeling supe rich people and families and organizations is far too obvious. 

      Some fraternities guide the world towards the greater good for centuries through progress, faith and peace, whereas the others guide the world through evil, chaos and death. 

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    • A FANDOM user
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