This is the discussion page for Malik Al-Sayf.
Here, you may discuss improving the article.
To discuss the subject itself, use the Forums.

  • Be polite
  • Assume good faith
  • Do not insult other people


Anybody else thinks that Malik may be an ancestor of Lucy? I mean it is possible, remember the writing on the wall there were two symbols that pointed out that history repeats itself, the Mandelbrot Set and the Lorenz Attractor. Here's a quote from the Lucy Stillman page.

"We have the Mandlebrot Set - an example of set theory and the repeating overall patterns of history."

I think the Mandelbrot Set represents that all the characters in Modern Times are just new versions of the same characters in the Third Crusade, remember, history repeats itself.

Anyway, continue the discussion so we can get some input.

Even if it does make sense, there's absolutely nothing right now that points that direction. Therefore I think we can keep it on the article, but only as a possibility and as such should be moved to the "Trivia" section. -- D. Cello 04:05, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

I personally don't think that Malik may be related to Lucy. I think him being related to Antonio is more logical seeing as both have similar roles in the games. Aiding the game's protagonist as well as being the protagonist's friend. Also, their voices are a bit similar... - Master Sima Yi 11:39, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
It's far fetched. I mean she looks like Maria as well.

I have never played AC2 but I always beleived that we can trace Lucy's ancestry back to Malik. Desmond is the descendant of Altair, Vidic is the descendant of Al Mualim, it'd be unfair if Malik is not present! By the way modern day DNA studies shows that a Y-chromosomal lineage with patterns suggesting that it originated from Mongolia circa 1000 years ago can now be found in 8% of the men in parts of Europe. These European men do not look Asiatic at all, yet they have Mongol ancestors. It’s possible that anyone today had an ancestor in any other place. If you are into genealogy then you might see what I mean. Roam 07:28, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Where did you get that Al Mualim is Vidic's ancestor? That wasn't in game. AgentValentine 07:56, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

That's just a fandom theory spreaded like that bloody Feudal Japan setting... -- D. Cello 17:19, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


Where is it said his name is Malik Al-Sayf? If this is true, the page could be moved to that, no? Master Sima Yi 11:41, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

"Malik" means "owner" so the name "Owner of the Sword" makes sense I guess. Cyberaltair 14:16, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
No changes will be made unless a verifiable source is given. Period. We already had the "Maria Thorpe" thing and it was enough. I wanna check and recheck those surnames to make sure it isn't fandom. -- D. Cello 02:50, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Malik means "King" or "Ruler".

Your honorable servant,


His last name ias a-sayf, it saasys in the credits.

Smiliey 08:58, January 22, 2010 (UTC)smiliey

Asked a friend who is of Arabic descent and he told me that Al-Sayf is actually a common surname where A-Sayf is not.

Someone put A-Sayf? I totally didn't notice. Good spot. 14:48, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's nice and all, but he clearly appears as Malik A-Sayf in the credits, not Al-Sayf. And this wiki is about a game, not real surnames. Could a mod move it back? -- Master Sima Yi 13:30, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Done. Not only the credits say that, but IMDB confirms it. -- D. Cello 14:57, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

IMDB information comes from the credits and it most likely is just a typo or a mistake. The word"A-Sayf" is completely senseless and meaningless. In Arabic "Al" is just a prefix; notice the words that come from Arabic: "Alcohol" or "Algebra". Even "Altair" has this prefix; since "tair" itself means bird or something that flies. Same thing with Al-Mualim (mualim means teacher/master). It's common for many people who hail from Arab-speaking regions to have the “Al-“ attached to their last names. I know "it's just a game", but I still believe it is meant to be "Al-Sayf" which means "Summer". "A-Sayf" however does NOT mean summer. Roam 07:51, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

At least this issue needs to be addressed in the article.

Then add a trivia note stating that the common surname is Al-Sayf, but maybe due to a typo mistake or creative liberty from Ubisoft the name in the game credits is stayed as A-Sayf. Simple. -- D. Cello 17:21, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I need to emphasis that A-Sayf does NOT mean summer. Al-Sayf means summer, and is written الصيف . There is an error in the article. Roam 08:04, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, we believe you, you can remove it. =]
There's any possible meaning for A-Sayf? -- D. Cello 14:11, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I have an Arabic friend. He says "Al-Sayf" means "of Swords" Which means his name, Malik Al-Sayf, means "King of Swords" -- HiddenAssassin13 9: 42 PM, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Malik Al-Sayf means King Of Sword or Owner Of Sword .... Malik A-Sayf means nothing its meaningless

Dear AC Wikia,

OK I am a fluent Arabic speaker from northern Africa (mother tongue actually) and i just want to help clear some stuff up. Malik مالك means "owner" as my own grandfather's name is Malik. It is also the name of the Islamic gaurdian of hell, Archangel Malik. The word can be generalized to mean "King" for a king is an owner of a kingdom but most of the time the word "King" is pronounced "M'lik" ملك with a shorter "a" sound than "Malik".

About the surname. "Sayf" سيف means sword. Al-Sayf of A-Sayf means "The Sword" as the "Al-" is just a definite article in the arabic language. It is written "Al-Sayf" السيف yes but is pronounced "A-Sayf" according to our grammer rules. The "Al-" is broken into two types ال القمرية و ال الشمسية, the Moon Al- and the Sun Al-. Yes this may sound weird but let me explain. When you say "the moon" in arabic which is "Al-Qamar" it is easier to pronounce the "Al-" and the first letter in the word, the "ق" or "q" therefor all similar words are called "Moon Als". The word "Shams" or Sun is much more difficult to say with an "Al-" in front so it is pronouced without an "l" making the correct pronounciation "A-Shams". The word "Sayf" is a "Sun Al-" so the correct prononciation is "A-Sayf" making Ubisoft suprisingly correct as I have noticed hundreds of arabic typos in their game.

Another thing. To this day I have never heard of an Arabian person named Altair, Kadar, or have the surname A-Sayf. these are just made up names for the sake of the game and not real names. I mean who wants to name his or her son "Sword"?

I hope this clears the air,

Omar Mohammed Malik, عمر محمد مالك (Arabian411269 02:14, March 9, 2012 (UTC))

The arabic spelling isn't from an official source. I understand that "knowledge" is not considered a source but hey. Malik is a common name in the middle east just like David and John are to western culture. Its my biological grandfather's name. Plus whoever thought it meant summer has good reason to; Sayf with a hard "S" like the one in Saladin actual does make it mean summer. Summer = صيف, Sword = سيف. Hence the meaning of the city's name Masyaf مصيف meaning "Summer town" as it used to be and still is a beautiful summer resort. I could upload a sound clip with the pronounciations but that would be over doing it. (Arabian411269 02:14, March 9, 2012 (UTC))

Sign your posts, don't mess formatting -- D. Cello 15:17, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
its 1000000000000000000000000000000000000% Al-Sayf not A-Sayf
Where did the arabic spelling of the name come from? If it's from an official source, then the proper spelling is Malik Al-Sayf and the correct meaning is "the owner of the sword". Al-Sayf here definitely does NOT mean "summer". The arabic spelling makes this very clear, leaving both the meaning of Al-Sayf and the way it should be spelled without doubt. 22:13, August 20, 2010 (UTC)misssnark

No Missing finger?

I like to talk about this. Though at the time when the first game was made, there was another possible reason, why Altaïr's finger was missing. It was said he removed it himself to prove his loyalty to the Creed and had no functionality to use the Hidden Blade at all. I'd like to hear from others to consult about this. It's just more as trivia to post, rather as fact, cause later we know that the finger was removed for the Hidden Blade, but at the development of the first game, I have my doubts if it was actually an error that Malik still has all his fingers. Altaïr February 23, 2010 (UTC)

that's just because of character inaccuracy. if u look at al mualim and the masyaf gurads they all are also missing their ring fingers.

Nulla è reale, tutto è lecito. Requiescat in Pace. 16:41, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Malik is Altaïr's RIGHT hand??? he doesn't have a right hand! 11:19, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

He lost his left arm. Whittard mt 00:13, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

I should block that guy just for trying to make a terrible joke. -- D. Cello 01:39, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
In the Brotherhood/Creed, up until Altair I think, when somebody passed and graduated and promoted to the rank of Assassin, to prove their loyalty the ring finger of their left hand was removed. It says on the pages that Leonardo transcribes in AC two. It's also because of how the blade sat on the wrist, it needed that space. Altair modified to blade and changed the ritual to simply burning the finger as Ezio does in Brotherhood when initiating his minions and sister.
If Malik still has his finger I would assume that it's simply an error by game designers.


How old is Malik exactly? PassiveNeoluna 23:20, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Nevermind, I found out. PassiveNeoluna 23:58, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Err... do you have a source? Not just AC1 game, somethingo more specific like "Assassin's Creed - Memory Sequence 3" or whatever? Sry, it's wiki policy. -- D. Cello 15:54, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
  • I checked the strategy guide myself and it indeed states he's 26. Hope that helps. Altaïr 17:08, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sorry for not mentioning where I found the info PassiveNeoluna 21:04, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Added sources for everything in the article. -- D. Cello 23:37, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

  • Sorry, I thought the notes and references always go at the bottom at the article. -- Altaïr 01:43, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

Maliks rank

When playing Solomons temple i noted that Malik correctly carries same outfit as Altair, But where Altaïr is ranked as Master Assassins Malik must be on rank 7 or 8. Because Malik only carries the first short knife you get, the one with a wood handle (short blade lvl 1). And he carries the Knife belt which you get in Rank 7. Since i couldn't see him carry a sword it cant really be determined weather he is rank 7 or 8. but it cant be higher since you receive the lvl 2 Short Blade in rank 9.

Both Altaïr and Malik points out that Altaïr is superior to Malik in rank, in Jerusalem were Malik forgives Altaïr for his actions, and in Solomons temple at the beginning.

Is this something worth adding?

Mr.Pheenox 18:25, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely. It is worthy. Actually, we could revamp and created a full article(s) about the rank system, since AC1 has lots of ranks indicators, such as belt size, cloth lenght, weapons and colors. Maybe we could create a project for it... what you think? -- D. Cello 18:58, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like a very good idea indeed. However, i don't think i would be suited for leading such a project if that was what your surguests. as i haven't even read the "how you do Wiki stuff" intro pages yet.

+ there is all ready an article about the rank system, however it could be deepened.

Mr.Pheenox 19:38, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

I have given it some thought D. Cello, and there are many things indicating ranks, and different purposes. Like black robes seams to be masters or Rafiques, there are the novices, and soldiers who carry the robes of Kadar, but seams to be able to give Altaïr orders... So there would probably be good with material for a project.

Mr.Pheenox 15:35, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

A new thing has come to my attention... while thinking of rank systems within AC ive noticed that it seams theres 2 different kinds of assassins. There are the ones Altair encounters while doing his research on his targets, some of them are on missions were they assassinate knights, archers you name it. They wear a different uniform then Altair. now it could ofcourse be an ranking issue.. but Altair weares the eagly suit even at rank zero. So i wondered even more, and i discovered another thing that seperates Altair from the other smaller assassins (and the reason i write it here) is the hidden blade.

Malik is the only other character seen with the hidden blade, and the eagle suit.. so an intresting conclusion could be that the eagle suit was rewarded to those assassins who carried a hidn blade. Any comments on this?

Mr.Pheenox 08:52, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Also... Kadar who join Malik and Altair in solomons temple.. wears a suit looking like the guards suits at the masters castle, and he doesn't wear an hidn blade.. but he is an important enough assassins to join Malik and Altair

Mr.Pheenox 08:55, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

All those things you mentioned were already said throuout the wiki. The official rank system works this way:

  • Informants are Novices
  • Apprentices wear the clothes seen in Masyaf's castle, at the library
  • Starting from initiate, the assassin starts weraing the "eagle suit", but each is unique:
    • The lower the rank, the less weapons avaiable for training, the tail is shorter, and the belts are narrower.
    • White hoods and hidden blades are only used from Assassin rank and above, and usually by members who fulfill missions. Guards and instructors wear gray hoods, as well as initiates and assassins below the full assassin rank.
    • Master Assassins is the highest serving rank within the order. It is caracterized by the long tail-like clothing, large leather belts and a longer red strip.
    • The Grand Master is the only member of the order authorized to wear a black hood, and a black overcoating.

This was discussed throughout the wiki, and we got information from the manual, the game guide, the art book and official interviews around the first game launch. -- D. Cello 21:57, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

well you have mentioned everything ive used to backup my theory but not.. the case of my discovery. That the eagle suit is linked with the hiddenblade not the master assassin rank. Since Malik ain't master assassin it can't be the master assassins who only carry the Eagle suit of altair.. but altair and malik are the only persons known with the hidden blade. And for that reason i am questioning if the eagle suit is linked to the hidden blade and not the rank. and asking for other peoples thoughts on this.

Ive just noticed that the info says "Starting from Initiate, the assassins wearing the 'eagle suit'"

But Kadar does not wear the eagle suit, and there are informants who ask Altair to help them clear out some archers because they are preparing a hit on some one else, and Novices would probably not get jobs where they need to kill people, or is it me who are wrong?

As i see it there are 2 types of assassins, the ones with hidden blade which are special picked by the master, and they are wearing the eagle suit, and then there are assassins who don't carry a hidden blade, the ones Altair encounters in the cities when they need some help.

I might be wrong, im just discussing the possibility Mr.Pheenox 09:03, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

The organization is named "Assassin Order (or Assassin Brotherhood)". The purpose of it is to kill people. They would never waste a Master Assassin sending him all the way to Acre to kill one archer. They send a novice. He is already initiated into the ways of the order and should be able to kill a lonely archer badly armored in top of a rooftop, but he doesn't have weapon proeficiency or experience to fight a Templar, for example. And yes, Kadar wears the eagle suit. It is just shorter, pay attention. And the hidden blade isn't exclusive to Master Assassin's or to choosen people, it is a privilege of full members only. Thing is, the only full members we see are Altaïr and Malik. The other high ranked guys (the instructor, for example) are not field agents, but work inside Masyaf. -- D. Cello 14:59, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Hey D. Cello i respect this page, and the work.. and as i see it research on a subject need to take in all perspectives to see if the idea holds.. like math and physic it needs to be bulled prof... I didn't write this to waste your or the others time but to open a civilized discussion on how the rank system worked... as people might have over looked things.

I didn't write to be insulted, talked down to or anything like it, as i never intended to talk down to you. all i sought was an objective discussion... rather then a "no your wrong.. we've allready figured it out" statement... insted of saying "Thats not the way it is.. and what your mentioning is this this and this" you could have approached in a more objective way by saying "Yes.. but have you taken these and that matter in account?"

Beside.. i never said they would send an Master assassin to do a hit on archers... i said in the game you approaches associates who tell Altair they are a group planning a hit on a (dont remember exact) a merchant, and some archers are blocking the operation which Altair is asked to help them with.

Any way.. since i've joined i've tried to contribute to this page, but i havn't been able to contribute with more then fustrations and irritations over my lack of knowlegde.. so after this post i will retire and bid you good luck in the future keeping this page up to date Mr.Pheenox 18:13, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

You opened a discussion, and I gave you the facts. Facts aren't subjective or relative, they are what they are: facts. If you saw an offense, watch it again, cause I didn't meant any. -- D. Cello 21:14, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Well to involve the obvious fact about the order beeing an assassin order.. and since an assassin is someone who kill for money or any other payment or orginisation made me feel alittle bid stupid. and im afraid it tricked my temper... and i appoligy for the rude way to answer back. I gave your facts a lot of thought and i checked Kadar out again, and discovered that i had overlooked the small tip on the hood which indicate the eagle suit.

I still find it funny that Altair is allowed to carry the full suit when being a novice.

and it makes me wonder, when are you a full member of the assassins guild? i mean Malik aint a master assassin, as ive mentioned before he's weapons indicates that his rank is the 7th or 8th rank Altair gets on his journey from Novice to Master Assassin

Mr.Pheenox 12:16, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Malik's Dead

I have a problem with the novel books being cited without clarification that the information has come from the novels. Even if there's a number citation at the end of information taken from the novels, I believe that a beginning clarification, such as 'according to [insert novel here]', should be included if the information does not come from an Ubisoft source or a non-fictional source, such as GameInformer, or IGN.

Citing from the non-official novels and taking it as fact without written clarification is like taking citation from a fanfic that just happens to be on sale. Draggy 22:56, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Yo dude. I see your issue, but we right articles from an in-universe point of view. Your idea wouldn't really fit with that... Personally I think sourcing the novels is fine. They're official material, not just some fanfic. Cheers! --Elchzard (Talking is fun.) 23:01, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Are the books truly from someone who works for Ubisoft? If not, I don't see them as official material and I don't believe they should be seen as such, even if they're written within the universe of Assassin's Creed. Sure, I don't have a problem with them having a spot in the wiki, they're pieces of AC media, but using the novels to explain the end to an official character, I believe, is worth discussing about. The way that Malik's death is worded in the wiki now will leave people to believe that Ubisoft has official decided that's how he died (unless they click on the citation and see it's from the novel). Unless the novels are pieces of Ubisoft licensed work, I'm not comfortable with novel citations being used without worded clarification.

Another note-- if the novels ARE from Ubisoft, then I don't mind them being used. Draggy 23:15, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

OF COURSE they are from ubisoft, what you think we are, kid, stupid? Every bit of info on this wiki comes from canon material that is in some way or another linked to Ubisoft. -- D. Cello 23:31, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

In addition to what Cello's said - I would like to direct you to the Canonicity section of our sourcing policy. As you can see, we tier the canonicity of Assassin's Creed media. I won't insult you by repeating what's been said on that page, but we do use the novellas as official sources. They come below the video games in terms of canon, but if we have info on something, that's great. If something in the games is contradicted by a novella, though, the events detailed in the game are the ones we use here. Essentially, any info is good info, as long as it doesn't contradict other, higher tiered info. Hope you understand what I'm trying to indicate here... Peace. --Elchzard (Talking is fun.) 23:37, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you VERY much for explaining that, instead of being, pardon my french, a bit of an jakass like D. Cello.. I feel a bit more comfortable in knowing this tier policy exist. Thank you thank you very very much! Draggy 23:46, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Pardon me--- Thank you Elchzard. I'm not sure why you're so mean, D. Cello... Draggy 00:06, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

No problem, mate. Being a jackass to smartasses like you is sometimes what I do best. Scram. -- D. Cello 23:51, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I actually have a question about this, as well. The scene in Revelations that covers the confrontation between Altair, Maria, and Abbas does not have Abbas showing them Malik's head. Also, nowhere in the dialogue for that scene do they mention Malik or the prison, and Abbas openly admits that he had Sef executed. Since Revelations is the most up-to-date source available, is it safe to say that Malik's death (or at least the course of events described here) has been retconned? - molotov, 1:49, March 14, 2012.

No. Revelations says that Abbas had Malik killed too, if you listen to what Altaïr says during the gameplay. The Secret Crusade just details that events spread over two days, while Revelations details it over a longer period of time. What is canon exactly has yet to be cleared up. -- Master Sima Yi 08:56, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Malik's wife

Has anyone any information about Maliks wife? She is never mentioned. -- 14:38, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Afraid not. He never mentioned her. --Jasca Ducato (talk | contributions) 14:44, December 20, 2013 (UTC)


Well, this certainly raises some questions. So he died on 12 September 1321? They probably mean 1221, but that doesn't make much sense considering his death in The Secret Crusade.--Bovkaffe (talk) 16:10, September 12, 2014 (UTC)

Initiates have a history of getting things wrong. Stormbeast The Helpful Place 16:13, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
It raises one question. "How in the fuck did they cock that up?" --Crimson Knight Intercom 16:21, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
Still, Malik's death in The Secret Crusade doesn't quite add up with Revelations.--Bovkaffe (talk) 16:23, September 12, 2014 (UTC)

Even if the year is hilariously inaccurate, might we use the "12 September" part at least, or would that be a bad idea? Crook The Constantine District 08:37, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Ad blocker interference detected!

Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.