Source seems legit. I'm guessing he's Connor's father though I could be wrong because it's an adopted name. If I'm right, then I guess this is how Forsaken explores Connor's backstory - by telling us more about his father. Looking forward to updating as more info comes out. ~ GI Auditore Comms Channel 01:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Just a couple things I noticed.

First, the name "Haytham" is not an English name, its actually an Arabic name (what exactly it means I don't know at this time) In addition, that could potentially mean that Haytham may possibly be a descendant of Altaïr. And if so, it would mean Connor is a descendant of Altaïr. However, I doubt this, for the following reason: it could actually be his mentor's name--remember, Connor isn't born into the order, he joins it in 1770. And in joining the order, perhaps he takes the last name of Kenway so he can move around in the white world (maybe he only has his native name at this time, we'll see.)SpartanCrow (talk) 06:40, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm not so sure about the descendant part because it's been confirmed that Connor isn't related to either Altair or Ezio. As for the Mentor part, it is likely and I considered this possibility, which is why I said I could be wrong. ~ GI Auditore Comms Channel 07:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Then perhaps Connor's Mentor is a descendant of Altaïr. 18:46, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Because English people can only have English names. A first name has nothing to do with ancestry. I know several people here from the Netherlands who have foreign names, which in no way means that they have foreign ancestry. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 18:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Think about it. What would someone with an Arabic name be doing running around London in 1735, unless he was part Arabic? This isn't the 21st Century, where cultures mesh far more easily then in the past. And a first name doesn't necessairily have anything to do with ancestry, you're right about that.SpartanCrow (talk) 00:18, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
I'm impressed by how fast the name's origin was caught. (Arabian411269 (talk) 16:25, September 15, 2012 (UTC))
Maybe the relationship ship between Connor and Haytham has nothing to do with parentage. Connor's facial features have no resemblance what so ever to Middle Eastern bone structure or even skin color. Maybe Haytham was Connor's mentor and, and this is just speculation, he was killed and Connor took the name in honor of his mentor.
And this might be interesting; Charles Lee was known to love dogs and always had at least half a dozen at his heel. Like father, like son? Wikipedia (Arabian411269 (talk) 16:30, September 15, 2012 (UTC))
Whoever put in that Haytham is Connor's father on the page, can you provide evidence that's been confirmed? I've not seen ANYTHING on this yet. In addition, evidence that Haytham was born in 1735. 02:35, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
it was sima that put that info in there and i trust him more than anyone else on this wiki America's mentor (talk) 02:42, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
It is correct. Sources incoming within the next day or so. KaloneousHelpDesk 02:45, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
I don't know if anyone has said this already, but Haytham means "Young eagle" in Arabic. The Dark Knight (talk) 22:36, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
Have you actually read the article? ~ GI Auditore Comms Channel 05:03, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
Oh, wow, now I feel stupid... The Dark Knight (talk) 13:28, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
My name is Haytham too and the name's meaning is "young hawk". Hawks means not only eagle, but it means bird of pray so it includes like falcons and buzzard. They need to be large in size. November 01, 2012.
I tried to get the meaning of "Haytham", too. I stumbled across a site which said that "Haytham" means "Young Eagle" (Islamic origin) and "Young Hawk" (Muslim origin). The origins confused me a bit. Anyways, I'm not entirely sure if sites like this are accurate. ~ APHELiON (talk) 14:49, November 2, 2012 (UTC)


I know it's to soon, but why Kenway? There most be one link Between Haytham and Connor? Anyone agree?--ACsenior (talk) 15:14, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

'Tis all speculation at this point, my friend, we have to wait for more information till we can be sure. He could be Connor's father, or merely someone Connor respected, seeing as his name was one he chose for himself. ~ GI Auditore Comms Channel 15:18, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


It should mention in the trivia that Haytham and Connor Kenway are the only father and Son to posses Eagle Vision. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:17, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

I'm unsure about this. Eagle Vision is a genetic trait so it has to be passed on from parents yet I understand what you mean about it being unique to AC3. Sima or Vatsa would be the best to resolve this. KaloneousHelpDesk 00:23, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

I believe he is referring to the fact that this is the first known occasion wherein the father (or mother) has not simply been a carrier of the EV gene. As a carrier, a person does not possess the abilities or symptoms of the gene he is carrying, but can still pass it on to their children. --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 16:26, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Assassin? From where?

None of the links say that he was an Assassin..... so why is it a part of the Assassin category? Just asking. ThatRandomUser ~Lair of Randomness (Enter at own risk) 08:08, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

While I think it originally contained a transcript that said he was an Assassin, it no longer does, so we have no source. I'll remove it. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 11:32, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
He's not an Asssasin. He is a Templar.
--To the one who did not sign:
He was an Assassin but then was convinced to become a Templar. There is a difference. Mr B Dead (talk) 21:46, October 30, 2012 (UTC)
Wait, where does it say he was an Assassin? Is there a link or anything? D3T&FS (talk) 03:30, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
Emails with Shaun and database entries more or less add up to say he was an assassin that was defected when conviced by Reginald Birch. Sima also believes that it occurred after Haytham's family was killed, which he saw information about, but the source no longer exists. His father, Edward Kenway, was an Assassin, and he was born into the order. All we know is that he was defected, but was an assassin. EmeraldCorruption (talk) 03:34, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
I got the impression that, while he was trained to be an Assassin in his early life, Birch's tutoring got Haytham over to the Templar side before Haytham could become inducted into the Assassins. – M.C.Tales (talk) 20:43, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
His father was killed when Haytham was 10 years old, he had no knowledge of the Assassin and Templar Orders. He was never an Assassin. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 20:47, November 26, 2012 (UTC)


Shouldn't it be mentioned in the page that he was killed by Connor? 16:00, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

And a lot of other things should be mentioned on there. The page will contain all the info in due time. But just adding "He was killed by Connor" is completely out of context, doesn't inform the reader of anything and is merely a large irrelevant spoiler for readers. In a few weeks I'm sure a full detailed biography will be up. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 01:05, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Cool. 16:32, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

It's getting late for me, so I'll just leave this here until it can be integrated into Haytham's death;

Even when your kind appears to triumph ... Still we rise again. And do you know why? It is because the Order is born of a realization. We require no creed. No indoctrination by desperate old men. All we need is that the world be as it is. And THIS is why the Templars will never be destroyed. Kalaong (talk) 06:15, November 5, 2012 (UTC)


Why do you always remove the pictures from this page? -Someone who didn't sign their post.

The low-quality images are removed. If the picture isn't high resolution, it won't be accepted. Oh, and don't forget to sign your posts. EmeraldCorruption (talk) 01:08, November 4, 2012 (UTC)

Major plot hole?

Did anyone else notice the plot hole that even AFTER Haytham sleeps with Connor's mother and makes her pregnant, Desmond is able to see his memories (Lee's initiation into the Templar Order)? 17:42, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

That might not have made here pregnant. He might have slept with here again and we didn't see it. Also, use the forums...... ThatRandomUser ~Lair of Randomness (Enter at own risk) 17:44, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Haytham and Kaniehti:io (Ziio) only kissed in the Temple cave. Relations between the two must have progressed from that point, so Haytham could have gotten her pregnant after Lee's initiation. Slate Vesper (talk) 17:48, November 3, 2012 (UTC)

Haytham did get her pregnant after the initiation, otherwise we wouldn't have seen it happen. This isn't really a discussion worth having. --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 12:51, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

We Need a Cool Quote

Yeah...Trever09 A place for Chivalry | Blog 18:46, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

"Shepard." "Wrex."

There's a cool quote. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 18:52, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

One from haythams dialogue, you Troll.Trever09 A place for Chivalry | Blog 19:03, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Welp, you should have specified. Can't blame me. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 19:05, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
It needs to be 20% cooler than the Shepard/Wrex quote too! KaloneousHelpDesk 19:12, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
Who changed the Quote back to the 'off with your head' one? I mean, I initially put that on here, but I thought the one I had exchanged it with, despite being shorter, was a much more deep statement from Haytham. EmeraldCorruption (talk) 23:26, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Here's a cool quote:

- Connor: "and what are YOU gonna do?"

- Haytham: "Never you mind, just do as I ask <parental stare>" BuonaFortuna (talk) 06:43, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


How the Hell could he have died at 61, if he lived from 1725 to 1781? Surely he'd be 56... Crimson Knight Intercom 19:24, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Sima just fixed it. Stormbeast The Helpful Place 19:33, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
That was me, sorry. I miscalculated. Supreme Master AssassinO Mentoras 06:52, November 8, 2012 (UTC)
You could have just fixed it yourself, Crimson Eagle, rather than moan about it on the talk page... --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 12:52, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
I know this is old, and you aren't here to read it, but I'll do it as I please.
I don't have the game, so I was unsure what was wrong, his DoB, or his age. I did assume it was his age, but should I put my own assumptions on an article? Nope. Crimson Knight Intercom 17:48, December 6, 2012 (UTC)


There's a scar on his face too like other ancestors of Desmond. It appears after 1776. But its not on the lips, on the chin. I'm not good at English writing, so please anybody add this on wiki. 06:14, November 8, 2012 (UTC)Kosappi

Why? --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 12:54, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Haytham's Father?

Was the unnamed man in the first mission of the game, the one Haytham assassinates, was that Edward Kenway? If you play the game again, you can tell it's heavily implied. I mean, from a storytelling standpoint, it would make perfect sense. 05:44, November 9, 2012 (UTC)Patric

No, that man was not Edward Kenway. I am directing you to this article, from there you will discover the truth. PS: The trivia holds your answer Supreme Master AssassinO Mentoras 05:58, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Athough it's not perfectly clear, the assumption is that the individual murdered was a member of the Assassin Order, hence his little speech about 'betrayal'. --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 12:54, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
Information curently gathered sort of goes a bit against that, I doubt that the man had been talking about Haytham leaving the assassins, since Haytham had left at a 'young' age. He was 29 in this time, I have doubts that the man was referring to something that happened a while ago like that. EmeraldCorruption (talk) 23:28, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Left handed?

I know this has been discussed with Altaïr too but I think Haytham might be legibly left handed. He was seen writing with his left hand in the first sequence while on the ship and he constantly fires the pistol with his left hand unlike his son who I have observed using the right hand. Should this be added somewhere like the trivia or what?

Crazy out. 03:34, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

True, he could be considered left-handed. He isn't ambidextrous, because he doesn't dual-wield. I will add it for now, good notice.? EmeraldCorruption (talk) 04:02, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Later in the ship, when the captain comes to talk to him and in other scenes he is shown writing with his right hand. If this goes in the article, surely it's only in the trivia.--OdranoellutaTalkSig.png 04:06, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so I was watching the cutscenes earlier and in one scene he does shoot with his right. Then there's the above scene mentioned. So wouldn't he actually be right-handed? WiccanLovely (talk) 06:21emple, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

I am going to take it out of the trivia entirely, I was sort of just taking Crazy's word for it but I now have the evidence otherwise. He shoots often with his right, writes often with his right, and fights with his sword with his right. I completely overlooked it. He also writes with his left though, so I suppose he could also be considered ambidextrous instead, but more likely right-handed if anything.? EmeraldCorruption (talk) 12:02, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

If we do keep it in the trivia, saying he's ambidextrous is probably more accurate. Though it probably is better to just take it out to prevent any confusion. WiccanLovely (talk) 06:39, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

Not an issue with the article

What is the precursor site? Is it the grand temple? I really don't understand why Haytham refers to it as such. —Preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk · contr)

Yes. The First Civilization are precursors, and the Grand Temple is a site. The term "Grand Temple" was not known to the British Rite of Templars, it seems. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 20:18, November 28, 2012 (UTC)
Oh right. A precursor is a person or thing that comes before  another of the same kind, i.e. those who came before? How long have assassins and templars known about the first civ? —Preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk · contr)
This isn't really the right place for this though. Due to the long history of both the Assassins and Templars, the knowledge of the existence of the First Civilization has been gained and lost various times. Due to poor worldwide communication up until the 20th century, knowledge was not shared between all Assassin Brotherhoods and Templar Rites either. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 23:09, November 28, 2012 (UTC)


After Sequence 11, Connor wrote "Sakatateriwáhten" under the painting of Haytham.

Does anyone have a clue what this means in English? 07:56, December 3, 2012 (UTC)-SleepyEm

Is that possible go back to the manor before epilogue? Can you upload screen shot of  "Sakatateriwáhten" thing, please? 13:06, December 5, 2012 (UTC)
(Sorry, I don't know how to add a post correctly.)
I think it's only possible if you're creating a new game. I can't upload a screen, because I've already finished the     game unfortunately. By the way: For some reason in the German version of the game, it is "Sakatateriwáhten", but in the English version it is "Sakataterihwáhten" with an additional H. 16:42, December 6, 2012 (UTC)-SleepyEm
Hello! Recently I have asked a man who knows 2 Mohawk women in real life. They suggested that the word means either "I made a mistake.", "I lost my way.", "fallen mind" or "I forgave myself.". I personally think that "I made a mistake" is the best translation, considering that Connor didn't want to kill his father but sadly had to in their fight, else he would have been strangled by Haytham. Plus, the AC book Forsaken shows that Connor is very sorry for misjudging and killing his father on the very first book page. Ahh this is so sad. Love you Haytham. /fangirlplz ;w; 02:40, January 18, 2013 (UTC)Rimfaxe96
Hey, it's Rimfaxe once more. The man I asked answered me again and after I explained him the father-son-plot of AC3, he said it could also mean "I'm sorry", "I apologize" or "I'm sorry for something I said". Either way, it's going to the I'm-sorry-I-was-wrong-direction. 15:55, January 18, 2013 (UTC)Rimfaxe96

Fill in the time between Haytham and Connor's memories

A part should be added that talks about Haytham and how he led the Templars to exterminate the colonial assassins in 1764. 02:15, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

We would if we knew anything about it, but there isn't anything to my knowledge that goes into it. Slate Vesper (talk) 02:48, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Forsaken? Lucan07Haunt me...and Stuff 02:56, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't really go into that. Slate Vesper (talk) 03:00, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

Haytham's middle name

Does Forsaken actually go into the specifics of Haytham's middle name, or is he simply known as "Haytham E. Kenway" and his middle name is never revealed?  Because if it is revealed, I think it should go in the trivia section of his article.  Yes? No? Supreme Master AssassinO Mentoras 02:21, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

Wait is it in the prequel book by oliver bowden? I think it was. Ac Reckoning or something. Or Forsaken. I don't know i forgot. Deniedoperative (talk) 06:19, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

I fixed the link for you Supreme, hope you don't mind. And I'm good either way, seeing as it's just an initial. If we knew his actual middle name, I'd definitely say yes to renaming. ~ GI Auditore Comms Channel 10:01, December 27, 2012 (UTC)

You don't think that if his actual middle name was given it would not be up there instead of an initial, do you? -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 10:10, December 27, 2012 (UTC)
I see that much is obvious, I simply asked out of hope that maybe someone read something in Forsaken regarding Haytham's middle name.  Supreme Master AssassinO Mentoras 18:35, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
Well, if we're going by some of the European standards, middle name for men is usually the father's name. Since Haytham's dad was named Edward, this would ring true, but is still speculative until we have any sources. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 18:52, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
As we should know now Hatham's fathers name is in fact Edward Kenway. Haytham's mother is Tessa Stephenson-Oakley. Bartlmay (talk) 03:22, November 17, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, we've known that for some time. What does this have to do with Haytham's middle name? Stormbeast The Helpful Place 03:30, November 17, 2013 (UTC)

Second Hidden Blade

Do we have any knowledge of where Haytham acquired his second hidden blade? In the novel AC:Forsaken we only hear of Haytham taking one hidden blade from Miko. 02:01, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

He may have manufactured one from Assassin lore collected by the Templars. This is speculation, as I don't believe it's covered in the series yet. DarkFeather Raven's NestRaven's Hunt 02:57, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
Though it's just my opinion, and that it doesn't count for much, I always perceived it that either Haytham took Miko's second Hidden Blade after he assassinated him, or that it was just implemented for gameplay purposes. Slate Vesper (talk) 03:02, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
I doubt that Haytham had time to grab Miko's second blade. I think that implementing it for gameplay is a more logical theory. 18:30, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

How old is he?

how old is he the thing said he was 55 the time he dies but no one put up how old he is the first time you play as him and said in his young age talk about when you play as him I mean so someone tell how old he is at thee time when you play as!Tyraj (talk) 17:27, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure you can figure it out if you know we play as him in 1754 and 1755. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 17:29, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

He was 29, I believe.


Should we not add the part from Forsaken where Haytham and his sister killed Reginald Birch since we have other forsaken information on this arcticle?Templar king (talk) 18:42, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

King Washington DLC

I read on Connor's article in the DLC that he acquired his hidden blade from Haytham. Does Haytham actually play a role in this DLC, or is he only mentioned? Would it be worth adding to the article? -- Blemo) 06:33, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that Haytham was an assassin rather than a templar in the king washington dlc? Because it is an alternate timeline and when Ziio gives connor the blades she says Haytham was part of a "brotherhood" which is what the assassins call themselves. 08:08, March 7, 2013 (UTC)Templar king (talk)

I believe so too, however, we have no official source for this, so it's speculation and cannot be added to the article. ~ GI Auditore Comms Channel 08:14, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

May be possible, but that brings up the question why Haytham would be in the British colonies, and why Connor would exist. Though the Templars were a brotherhood too. Just with... less real fraternity. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 08:29, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

No render!?

You all are telling me Ubisoft hasn't released a render for this man - the star of Assassin's Creed III? This is an outrage! ghost_ninja

Lead quote

Surely we have a better quote to take pride of place? The current one isn't even about him... --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 18:48, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

my vote goes to the line about feeding redcoats their teeth.Malice419 (talk) 15:39, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but we still need a much better lead quote than the one we have now.Templar king (talk) 15:23, April 29, 2013 (UTC)

Connor Hanged

Hello All,

The following is in the section directly above the title "Reunion with Connor":

"When Connor's Assassin apprentices attempted but failed to cut the rope holding up his noose with a fired arrow, Haytham threw a knife from amongst the crowds, severing the rope and saving Connor, but also causing the audience to panic."

I don't remember this part happening, I am not saying it didn't happen but can someone lead me to the right cutscene to see this? I rewatched the Connor execution scene but it didn't show Haytham saving him. Was this part in another cut scene?

Thanks Baddkar (talk)

It's revealed in Assassin's Creed: Forsaken. The reason why it's valid is because the perspective goes to that of inside the hood when Connor's about to be executed, and the panicked dispersal of the crowd after he's cut loose. Slate Vesper (talk) 19:26, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks. Is forsaken canon? I read somewhere about a few of the comics not being canon but I think they were the Ezio ones. Baddkar (talk) 20:16, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Everything in the novels that doesn't contradict the canon as stated in the games or the encyclopedias is, far as I've understood, considered canon in this wiki. The comics that aren't canon are the Jonathan Hawk comics. Sadelyrate (siniath) 21:58, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Only the modern day portions of them are non-canon, Sade. Slate Vesper (talk) 14:22, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
Eugh, the whole situation with the French comics is a bit convoluted, I find. --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 16:38, August 11, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification, Slate. And agreed, Jasca. Sadelyrate (siniath) 16:43, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I'd just prefer it if they mentioned the modern day aspects of the Johnathan Hawk comics as the result of one of Minerva's calculations, and then incorporate the characters introduced into the main storyline somehow. Slate Vesper (talk) 17:46, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

It's an idea, I suppose; one that would work quite well. --Jasca Ducato Council Chamber Assassination record 20:57, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Assassin symbol

Second time playing and I noticed that he has an assassin symbol, like Connor on his forearm. But, what I don't get is, why? Or did it just come with the hand-me-down hidden blades?FortunePayback (talk) 22:40, September 3, 2013 (UTC)FortunePayback

He stole his Hidden Blades from the Assassin Miko. Slate Vesper (talk) 00:14, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Final words?

I was curious about this: even though Haytham isn't an assassination target persay, he does have final words in the memory corridor. Should they be added here? -Molotov.cockroach (talk) 03:22, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

They are there. I'm personally very opposed to the whole idea and think they should be removed from every page. --Crimson Knight Intercom 03:24, December 24, 2013 (UTC)
...well that was silly. Seems I looked right over it. -Molotov.cockroach (talk) 03:37, December 24, 2013 (UTC)
Heh, don't worry. It happens to all of us, trust me. ;) --Crimson Knight Intercom 03:40, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

what mean of E. ?

Edward? Or others?诸葛彻 (talk) 13:41, March 9, 2015 (UTC)诸葛彻

Most likely, given the European penchant for a male child to have his second name be the same as his father. We can't verify at this time, though. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie 13:51, March 9, 2015 (UTC)

Still a Templar?

Since Haytham realized the Birch is responsible for his Edward's death, and killed him, why did he stayed as a Templar and rejected his heritage?

Haytham had been raised from the age of ten to believe in Templar ideology, Birch had effectively indoctrinated him into the order since he was so young. It isn't possible to just forget all of that and embrace the other side's views when its something that's been hardwired into your brain from childhood.
Haytham did acknowledge his heritage though and if you read Forsaken you'll find it's something he battled with a lot, and eventually came to view himself as a person with Assassin roots and Templar beliefs, someone who could possibly bridge the gap between the two sides. ArcemzSig.png 11:46, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I think that was around the time in 1758 he said he wanted to unite the Templars and Assassins, and then proceeded to exterminate the Assassins alongside Shay when he got back to the colonies. I have to say that I'm not sure we should consider Forsaken a Bible when it comes to Haytham's feelings since they seem to contradictory. Not that Arcemz isn't right. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 11:55, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

That's a good point, I probably should've mentioned that he basically gave up on that whole idea of unity after Holden's suicide and Ziio's death, and ended up becoming pretty disillusioned with everything. The loss of those two seemed to break his will and he wasn't interested in anything other than wiping out the Assassins at that point. ArcemzSig.png 12:40, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Well if I remember right Holden's suicide is what inspired him to unite the Assassins and Templars. Don't know about Ziio's death though, but I thought he only found out about that until much later. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 13:02, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

It might've been, it's been awhile since I've read Forsaken. I thought his decision to unite the two was due to Jenny and the discovery of Edward as an Assassin, but I could be wrong. It's just that by the time Connor comes along, with an idealistic hope for the future, Haytham is unwilling to accept it because he had that dream himself but it's now been burned away by the grief from losing people like Holden and Ziio. ArcemzSig.png 13:15, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
The Unity novel actually seems to imply that Haytham continued to believe in uniting the Assassins and Templars up to his very death.--Bovkaffe (talk) 13:18, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

And he shows the exact opposite behaviour in the games, particularly Rogue. I guess that's what you get when you let someone not directly involved in the writing of the games write the novels. -- Master Sima Yi Clogs 13:24, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Instead, I think the Haytham viewed in Forsaken does not contradicts the Haytham viwed in the games: in fact, he tries to dialogue with Connor, when he could let him die, not only because he's his son, but because he hopes to unite Assassins and Templars. I think he lost his hopes when Connor refused him. Then, in Rogue were no possibilities of dialogue with Achilles.--Re Edward Kenway (talk) 22:11, August 23, 2015 (UTC)